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CIO  February 2009

CIO February 2009

Subject:

Re: Savings with Open Source

From:

Robert Paterson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 7 Feb 2009 09:17:08 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (304 lines)

Back to the original question that started this thread. There probably are not significant savings,"fluff" in switching from one to the other. Tight econonmic times are probably not the time to undertake major initatiaves in not for profit organizations. Happy weekend. 
Rob

Dr. Robert Paterson
Vice President, Information Technology, Planning and Research
Molloy College
516-678-5000 ex.6443
>>> Theresa Rowe <[log in to unmask]> 02/07/09 8:58 AM >>>
I'd like to second Patrick's point about transition costs.  Once faced with
a transition, and having identified high transition costs, transition costs
are a driver for change but not necessarily different for the solutions.  We
also were at a point of facing significant cost increases due to a WebCT
course migration.  When put in a position of facing transition costs - more
than just usual upgrade costs - we are re-evaluating our platform and
direction.  We've just started thinking about this with our portal.  We are
assessing whether our current direction, which is going to need a
transition, should change to a new platform.   And when we appeared to need
a high-cost hardware overhaul for email, we started evaluating all the other
email solutions on the market.  So the identification of transition is the
trigger, and the transition costs are going to be there regardless of
whether you stay the course or change.   I suspect transition is a trigger
point regardless of product or functional purpose.

Theresa Rowe

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Patrick Masson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Joesph has a great point about transition costs not included in the
> figures. We were facing a migration no matter what as WebCT licensing was no
> longer available. Therefore no matter what platform we would have moved to
> we would incur transition costs: course migration, content migration, data
> migration, training of faculty and staff (help desk, instructional
> designers, administrative staff, etc.). Obviously this made it a great time
> to assess our options.
>
> I was hoping to provide a reference case based on comparable services
> (support, hosting, staffing etc.), deployments (# of
> courses/sections/faculty/students) with the only variable the licensing
> model. I would also suggest that our transition costs would be relatively
> the same had we migrated from WebCT to Angel, Blackboard, Desire2Learn,
> Moodle or Sakai.
>
>
>
>  |   ||| |  ||||  |      |    |  | |  |  |  |||| |  |||  |    || |  |||| | |  ||  |    |
> Patrick Masson
> Chief Information Officer
> 331B Bush Hall
> State University of New York
> College of Technology at Delhi
> Delhi, New York 13753
> Office: 607-746-4670
> Fax: 607-746-4300
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> AIM: uclasunydelhi
>
> -----The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote: -----
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> From: Joseph Vaughan <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv <
> [log in to unmask]>
> Date: 02/06/2009 05:31PM
>
> Subject: Re: [CIO] Savings with Open Source
>
> Patrick's analysis makes a case for an equation that, in theory at least,
> seems true:
>
> TCO of Open Source Application approximately equals (TCO of Proprietary
> Application - Licensing costs)
>
> Given the quality of some open source applications, it is entirely feasible
> to *use* them without having to do any programming or think about
> contributing to the project.  Adjusting the code is an option in open
> source, but it is not one that you have to pursue, so it is clearly an
> optional cost. It might require institutional self discipline not to fall
> into the temptation to change the code and then find itself maintaining a
> fork of the project, but it is still just an option, not a requirement of
> using an open source application.
>
> I do think, however, that Patrick's analysis fails to take account of
> transition costs. If there were no transition costs, then everyone would be
> swayed by the equation.  I would include in transition costs such things as
> retraining (for IT staff, students, faculty) and costs of converting content
> from the old system to the new one.
>
> But we all endure transition costs of one kind or another all the time.
> So, to echo other's words, "it depends".
>
>
> Joseph Vaughan
> CIO/Vice-President for Computing
> and Information Services
> Harvey Mudd College
> [log in to unmask]
>
> 909 621 8613
> free/busy info at
> http://tinyurl.com/vaughanfreebusy
>
>
>
> Patrick Masson wrote:
>
> While our migration was not from Bb to Moodle, rather from WebCT, I do want
> to counter some of the comments about the need to hire programmers and the
> TCO being the same or even more for open source options, here is one data
> point (please note, not only are costs lower, support is expanded)...
>
> At SUNY Delhi our total costs for running Moodle for 2007-2008 was $57,500
> and includes:
>
>    - $6,000 for remote hosting through a 3rd party provider...
>       - This provides access for all 2,800 students and 150 faculty to
>       SUNY Delhi's complete catalog of courses and sections.  Includes
>       development, test and production environments, back-ups and archives, 24/7
>       support, SIS integration.
>        - $49,000 1.0 FTE annual salary for Coordinator of Online
>    Education...
>     - This position provides support for creating content, developing
>       online courses and programs, functional end-user training (in the LMS as
>       well as other educational resources used in online courses: course capture,
>       podcasting, etc.), and LMS application administration. NOTE: LMS application
>       administration does not include any programming (e.g. PHP), DBA (e.g.
>       mySQL), system's administration (e.g. Linux, Tomcat, VM, etc.) or networking
>       duties. The position only administers Moodle via the native administrative
>       functionality available through Moodle handling password resets, learning
>       module configuration, user interface design, etc.
>    - $2,500 for other online learning specific costs...
>       - NetTutor License ($1,500), Luminis Message Broker license to
>       integrate Moodle and Banner ($300), HostMonster account providing Moodle
>       sandbox ($100), Travel and Professional Development for the Coordinator of
>       Online Education ($600).
>
>
> Total costs for running WebCT for 2006-2007 was $78,350 and includes:
>
>    - $19,350 WebCT license
>       - Provided access for all 2,800 students and 150 faculty to SUNY
>       Delhi's complete catalog of courses and sections. Each course was created in
>       the LMS whether that was an in-person course (where the LMS simply provides
>       access to course materials) or an asynchronous course (totally online).
>    - $2,500 ($10,000 over four years) for local hosting (dedicated
>    hardware) of WebCT
>       - Includes production environment, back-ups and archives, 8/5
>       support, SIS integration.
>    - $5,000 .1 FTE Systems Administration
>       - This position provides server/systems administration and network
>       administration for local WebCT support.
>        - $49,000 1.0 FTE annual salary for Coordinator of Online
>    Education...
>       - This position was staffed by our current Coordinator and provided
>       analogous support, creating content, developing online courses, LMS
>       functional end-user training, and LMS administration. LMS Administration did
>       not include any programming, DBA, system's administration or networking
>       duties. The position only administered WebCT via the native administrative
>       functionality available through WebCT handling password resets,
>       configuration, user interface design, etc.
>    - $2,500 for other online learning specific costs
>       - NetTutor License ($1,500), Luminis Message Broker license to
>       integrate Moodle and Banner ($300), HostMonster account providing Moodle
>       sandbox ($100), Travel and Professional Development for the Coordinator of
>       Online Education ($600).
>
> Patrick
>
>
>  |   ||| |  ||||  |      |    |  | |  |  |  |||| |  |||  |    || |  |||| | |  ||  |    |
> Patrick Masson
> Chief Information Officer
> 331B Bush Hall
> State University of New York
> College of Technology at Delhi
> Delhi, New York 13753
> Office: 607-746-4670
> Fax: 607-746-4300
> Email:  [log in to unmask]
> AIM: uclasunydelhi
>
>  -----The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv <[log in to unmask]>
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote: -----
>
>  To: [log in to unmask]
> From: "Niccoli, David A." <[log in to unmask]>
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv <[log in to unmask]>
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 02/06/2009 10:17AM
> Subject: Re: [CIO] Savings with Open Source
>
>  I would be very interested in responses.  This has been brought up a
> number of times at our institution.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> *  *
>
> *David A. Niccoli * **
>
> *Chief Information Officer ***
>
> *C **olorado ** **S **tate ** **U **niversity **- **P **ueblo ***
>
> *Information Technology Services *
>
> 2200 Bonforte Blvd.            phone      719-549-2566
>
> Pueblo, CO  81001-4901   fax            719-549-2808
>
> *[log in to unmask] *
>
> *www.colostate-pueblo.edu * <http://www.colostate-pueblo.edu>
>
>
>
> *From: * The EDUCAUSE CIO Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Moore, Frank
> *Sent: * Friday, February 06, 2009 7:04 AM
> *To: * [log in to unmask]
> *Subject: * [CIO] Savings with Open Source
>
>
>
> Good morning All,
>
> Like many states in the country, budget cuts (and substantial cuts at that)
> are the norm. To that end, my institution is looking at where any "fluff"
> might be. One of the areas we are looking at is our course management system
> (Blackboard, not that this is "fluff".). We are looking at open source
> solutions such as Moodle. Our Blackboard annual maintenance is about
> $52,000. That could be thought of as one technology FTE.
>
> -Has anyone here had any experience migrating to Moodle from Blackboard?
> -If so, how did it go? How do the faculty feel about the change?
> -Do you feel that you have the same functionality with Moodle that you did
> with Blackboard?
>
> One of our considerations is that we have a huge on line presence using
> Blackboard and I don't want to loose that if we move to something else.
>
> Has anyone on line targeted other software for "removal" because they have
> found an open source equivalent that was (better and) cheaper?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
> F. X. Moore III, Ph.D.
> Vice President and CIO
> Longwood University
> 201 High Street
> Farmville, VA 23909
>
> [voice] 434.395.2034
> [fax]   434.395.2035
>
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.longwood.edu
>
> IITS will never ask for your password in an email.
> Don't ever email your password to anyone!
>
>  ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/
> .
>  ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/
> .
>
>
>  ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/
> .
>
>  ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>
> ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>


-- 
Theresa Rowe
Chief Information Officer
Oakland University

**********
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**********
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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