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ITWOMEN  March 2011

ITWOMEN March 2011

Subject:

Re: Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls from math and science?

From:

"Semmens, Theresa" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 4 Mar 2011 13:09:32 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

To tail off Marilyn's comments....





Some of my strongest mentors/coaches are men whom I have deep respect for; I know I can trust them.  For that matter, this whole conversation thread is about trust and respect.  Something that is needed within both genders and within each gender as well. 





Theresa Semmens, CISA

Chief IT Security Officer

North Dakota State University

IACC 210D

PO Box 6050

Fargo, ND 58108

Phone: 701-231-5870

Cell Phone: 701-212-2064

Fax: 701-231-8541

[log in to unmask]







Security is a process, privacy is a consequence

Security is action, privacy is a result of successful action

Security is the strategy, privacy is the outcome

Security is the sealed envelope, privacy is the successful delivery of the message inside the envelope  

							~ Kevin Beaver & Rebecca Herold







-----Original Message-----

From: The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marilyn Delmont

Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:00 PM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [ITWOMEN] Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls from math and science?



Sorry Keith, you are right I have had some really good male mentors/coaches

who are sensitive to female  gender issues. I wish there were more men like

you.    But I have to say that I can personally relate to Kathy as I have

had to deal with similar remarks.  I did get caught up in the humor of it.

Although situations like this, when it happens to you, is no laughing

matter.



Regards,



Marilyn Delmont

Interim Vice Chancellor for Information Technology

Nevada System of Higher Education

Phone: (702) 895-4590   Fax: (702) 895-1772

[log in to unmask]















From:	Keith Boswell <[log in to unmask]>

To:	[log in to unmask]

Date:	03/04/2011 12:46 PM

Subject:	Re: [ITWOMEN] Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls from

            math and science?

Sent by:	The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv

            <[log in to unmask]>







Ouch Marilyn!  There are men out here who genuinely care that women in IT

are respected and treated fairly and that girls and women see STEM careers

as viable and fulfilling options.  I will admit that I'm having a little

trouble with Kathy's post.  Perhaps because I'm a man (but more likely

because I'm a pain in the "you know what" about statements like this) I

don't automatically jump to the worst case when mentally filling in the

rest of the statement after the ellipsis.  I actually would like to know

what was said and how it was said, as that would make all the difference.

Was the "male leader" making a snarky comment about Kathy's work and/or

presentation or did he go on to ask a legitimate question about

calculations.  With the data available I'm not prepared to automatically

assume that this was a demonstration of his "shabby little ways."  It may

have been and if it was then shame on him, I just can't tell from Kathy's

post.



I also don't see the link between the research presented in the Slate

article and Kathy's comment to the effect of "If male teachers treat female

students like this - like they can't do math - it's no wonder female

students are discouraged."



The article described research that appears to demonstrate that girls/women

seem to have an unconscious bias that causes them to be more motivated or

accepting of careers in math or science if they learn from a female vs a

male teacher.  I didn't see anything that stated or implied that the male

teachers in the studies did anything to discourage their female students.



Which brings me to my final point and that is a bit of frustration with the

article itself.  The problem with writing an article like this is that it

describes relatively pure and focused research.  Experiments like this

produce a set of observable behaviors or results but are usually not

designed to postulate ways to change the observed behaviors.  I don't have

a feel for how many readers of Slate understand how research like this

works and probably won't even realize that while it's certainly interesting

reading it tells us nothing about how we might change these behaviors or

even if we can.  And yet the article will probably leave some readers

drawing conclusions that somehow those men with their shabby little ways

have convinced girls and women that they are not as good as men in math and

science, all empirical evidence to the contrary.  I'd be more interested in

any follow up research that might offer insight into how we might change

these unconscious biases in girls and women so they don't self-select out

of pursuing STEM careers.



Thanks,



Keith



******************************

Keith Boswell

Director of Information Technology

College of Engineering

North Carolina State University



T: (919) 515-7930

F: (919) 515-7463

******************************





>>> Marilyn Delmont <[log in to unmask]> 3/4/2011 3:12 PM >>>

Maybe we should have a session at EDUCAUSE entitled "For MEN Only" just to

talk about these issues.  Of course, the only people that would show up is

probably "women".





Marilyn Delmont

Interim Vice Chancellor for Information Technology

Nevada System of Higher Education

Phone: (702) 895-4590   Fax: (702) 895-1772

[log in to unmask]















From:Kathy Bergsma <[log in to unmask]>

To:[log in to unmask]

Date:03/04/2011 12:05 PM

Subject:Re: [ITWOMEN] Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls from

            math and science?

Sent by:The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv

            <[log in to unmask]>







Good advice.  Thank you.



On 3/4/2011 12:27 PM, Sharon Collingwood wrote:

      Maybe you should ask him if the numbers would be better accepted by

      the group if you jumped out of a cake while presenting them.



      Highlight, with humour, the error of their shabby little ways.







      On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Kathy Bergsma wrote:



            Last week I calculated password entropy values for our

            institution as part of our effort to pursue InCommon Silver

            Certification.  I presented the calculations at a meeting and

            the male leader of the group said, "I don't know if you did

            these calculations, but...."



            If male teachers treat female students like this - like they

            can't do math - it's no wonder female students are

            discouraged.  :(



            On 3/3/2011 10:55 AM, Heidi Wachs wrote:

                  Interesting article on a study at UMass that I thought

                  this group would appreciate.



                  Psych Out Sexism

                  The innocent, unconscious bias that discourages girls

                  from math and science.



                  http://www.slate.com/id/2286671/





            --

            Kathy Bergsma

            UF Information Security Manager

            <sig-security-made-simple.png>

            ********** Participation and subscription information for this

            EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at

            http://www.educause.edu/groups/.







      Dr. Sharon Collingwood

                http://people.cohums.ohio-state.edu/collingwood7/



      Department of Women's Studies

      The Ohio State University

      286 University Hall, 230 North Oval Mall

      Columbus, Ohio 43210-1311



      Blog: Exploring the Virtual Classroom

                http://ebrewster.wordpress.com/



      AVATAR:  Ellie Brewster (Reaction Grid, Heritage Key, InWorldz, Open

      Sim, Jokaydia Grid, 3Rock, SpotOn 3D, Francogrid, Second LIfe)



      Visit Minerva Isle in Second Life:

                http://slurl.com/secondlife/Minerva/16/14/22



      ********** Participation and subscription information for this

      EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at

      http://www.educause.edu/groups/.







--

Kathy Bergsma

UF Information Security Manager



********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE

Constituent Group discussion list can be found at

http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



**********

Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent

Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE

Constituent Group discussion list can be found at

http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



**********

Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



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