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ITWOMEN  March 2011

ITWOMEN March 2011

Subject:

Re: Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls from math and science?

From:

Marilyn Delmont <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 4 Mar 2011 13:29:32 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (269 lines)

Very well stated.

Marilyn Delmont
Interim Vice Chancellor for Information Technology
Nevada System of Higher Education
Phone: (702) 895-4590   Fax: (702) 895-1772
[log in to unmask]







From:	"Semmens, Theresa" <[log in to unmask]>
To:	[log in to unmask]
Date:	03/04/2011 01:09 PM
Subject:	Re: [ITWOMEN] Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls from
            math and science?
Sent by:	The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv
            <[log in to unmask]>



To tail off Marilyn's comments....


Some of my strongest mentors/coaches are men whom I have deep respect for;
I know I can trust them.  For that matter, this whole conversation thread
is about trust and respect.  Something that is needed within both genders
and within each gender as well.


Theresa Semmens, CISA
Chief IT Security Officer
North Dakota State University
IACC 210D
PO Box 6050
Fargo, ND 58108
Phone: 701-231-5870
Cell Phone: 701-212-2064
Fax: 701-231-8541
[log in to unmask]



Security is a process, privacy is a consequence
Security is action, privacy is a result of successful action
Security is the strategy, privacy is the outcome
Security is the sealed envelope, privacy is the successful delivery of the
message inside the envelope

	 ~ Kevin Beaver & Rebecca Herold



-----Original Message-----
From: The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv [
mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marilyn Delmont
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ITWOMEN] Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls from math
and science?

Sorry Keith, you are right I have had some really good male mentors/coaches
who are sensitive to female  gender issues. I wish there were more men like
you.    But I have to say that I can personally relate to Kathy as I have
had to deal with similar remarks.  I did get caught up in the humor of it.
Although situations like this, when it happens to you, is no laughing
matter.

Regards,

Marilyn Delmont
Interim Vice Chancellor for Information Technology
Nevada System of Higher Education
Phone: (702) 895-4590   Fax: (702) 895-1772
[log in to unmask]







From:		 Keith Boswell <[log in to unmask]>
To:		 [log in to unmask]
Date:		 03/04/2011 12:46 PM
Subject:		 Re: [ITWOMEN] Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls
from
            math and science?
Sent by:		 The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv
            <[log in to unmask]>



Ouch Marilyn!  There are men out here who genuinely care that women in IT
are respected and treated fairly and that girls and women see STEM careers
as viable and fulfilling options.  I will admit that I'm having a little
trouble with Kathy's post.  Perhaps because I'm a man (but more likely
because I'm a pain in the "you know what" about statements like this) I
don't automatically jump to the worst case when mentally filling in the
rest of the statement after the ellipsis.  I actually would like to know
what was said and how it was said, as that would make all the difference.
Was the "male leader" making a snarky comment about Kathy's work and/or
presentation or did he go on to ask a legitimate question about
calculations.  With the data available I'm not prepared to automatically
assume that this was a demonstration of his "shabby little ways."  It may
have been and if it was then shame on him, I just can't tell from Kathy's
post.

I also don't see the link between the research presented in the Slate
article and Kathy's comment to the effect of "If male teachers treat female
students like this - like they can't do math - it's no wonder female
students are discouraged."

The article described research that appears to demonstrate that girls/women
seem to have an unconscious bias that causes them to be more motivated or
accepting of careers in math or science if they learn from a female vs a
male teacher.  I didn't see anything that stated or implied that the male
teachers in the studies did anything to discourage their female students.

Which brings me to my final point and that is a bit of frustration with the
article itself.  The problem with writing an article like this is that it
describes relatively pure and focused research.  Experiments like this
produce a set of observable behaviors or results but are usually not
designed to postulate ways to change the observed behaviors.  I don't have
a feel for how many readers of Slate understand how research like this
works and probably won't even realize that while it's certainly interesting
reading it tells us nothing about how we might change these behaviors or
even if we can.  And yet the article will probably leave some readers
drawing conclusions that somehow those men with their shabby little ways
have convinced girls and women that they are not as good as men in math and
science, all empirical evidence to the contrary.  I'd be more interested in
any follow up research that might offer insight into how we might change
these unconscious biases in girls and women so they don't self-select out
of pursuing STEM careers.

Thanks,

Keith

******************************
Keith Boswell
Director of Information Technology
College of Engineering
North Carolina State University

T: (919) 515-7930
F: (919) 515-7463
******************************


>>> Marilyn Delmont <[log in to unmask]> 3/4/2011 3:12 PM >>>
Maybe we should have a session at EDUCAUSE entitled "For MEN Only" just to
talk about these issues.  Of course, the only people that would show up is
probably "women".


Marilyn Delmont
Interim Vice Chancellor for Information Technology
Nevada System of Higher Education
Phone: (702) 895-4590   Fax: (702) 895-1772
[log in to unmask]







From:Kathy Bergsma <[log in to unmask]>
To:[log in to unmask]
Date:03/04/2011 12:05 PM
Subject:Re: [ITWOMEN] Slate: Does hidden sexism discourage girls from
            math and science?
Sent by:The EDUCAUSE ITWomen Constituent Group Listserv
            <[log in to unmask]>



Good advice.  Thank you.

On 3/4/2011 12:27 PM, Sharon Collingwood wrote:
      Maybe you should ask him if the numbers would be better accepted by
      the group if you jumped out of a cake while presenting them.

      Highlight, with humour, the error of their shabby little ways.



      On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Kathy Bergsma wrote:

            Last week I calculated password entropy values for our
            institution as part of our effort to pursue InCommon Silver
            Certification.  I presented the calculations at a meeting and
            the male leader of the group said, "I don't know if you did
            these calculations, but...."

            If male teachers treat female students like this - like they
            can't do math - it's no wonder female students are
            discouraged.  :(

            On 3/3/2011 10:55 AM, Heidi Wachs wrote:
                  Interesting article on a study at UMass that I thought
                  this group would appreciate.

                  Psych Out Sexism
                  The innocent, unconscious bias that discourages girls
                  from math and science.

                  http://www.slate.com/id/2286671/


            --
            Kathy Bergsma
            UF Information Security Manager
            <sig-security-made-simple.png>
            ********** Participation and subscription information for this
            EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
            http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



      Dr. Sharon Collingwood
                http://people.cohums.ohio-state.edu/collingwood7/

      Department of Women's Studies
      The Ohio State University
      286 University Hall, 230 North Oval Mall
      Columbus, Ohio 43210-1311

      Blog: Exploring the Virtual Classroom
                http://ebrewster.wordpress.com/

      AVATAR:  Ellie Brewster (Reaction Grid, Heritage Key, InWorldz, Open
      Sim, Jokaydia Grid, 3Rock, SpotOn 3D, Francogrid, Second LIfe)

      Visit Minerva Isle in Second Life:
                http://slurl.com/secondlife/Minerva/16/14/22

      ********** Participation and subscription information for this
      EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
      http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



--
Kathy Bergsma
UF Information Security Manager

********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**********
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**********
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**********
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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